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 lucky |
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Posts: 74 (01/28/09 20:13:48) Administration
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Tiffany wrote:rotfl All the talk about being mirrors for our fellow men got to me and I had to speak up. 
chris |
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nagual |
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Posts: 59 (01/29/09 02:21:39) Lujan Matus
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rotfl !
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spectral |
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Posts: 891 (01/29/09 03:28:57) Moderator
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"""Where's the emptiness?
I see hatred, betrayal, vanity, self absorption, but not emptiness. To me you seem all wound up. Your posts rattle on about yourself like there was nothing else. Thats a signal that your self needs aren't being fulfilled, ie. the need for an accurate and acceptable self image. I read the beginning of your alchemy thread and thought, "Lujan is right, you are unhinged." lol Hatred is a projection of alienated (unacceptable) aspects of yourself. Reclaim those parts of yourself and the hatred dissolves.""" (Lucky) """Spectral, you're still trying to get a foothold. Lucky has pointed this out to you and all of us here and I agree with it. Even though you are addressing what is confronting you, you are still not taking responsibility for it. There is a quality of pausing, waiting for the storm to pass so you can resume your MO. You are presenting yourself as humbled, but as Lucky says, you're posts rattle on. And in your rattling, you are still trying to maintain control even if to appear co-operative. Get to real emptiness. Take responsibility rather than post about it. Not to say don't post, I do want you to post. I'm saying take responsibility for your posts. Use your posting as opportunities to do this, unhinge your MO.""" (Tiffany) Thanks guys that was very sobering. """Take responsibility rather than post about it. Not to say don't post, I do want you to post. I'm saying take responsibility for your posts. Use your posting as opportunities to do this, unhinge your MO.""" Yes. I need to stop myself without stopping. |
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Tiffany |
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Posts: 2673 (01/29/09 17:52:14) |
Spectral, well done!
I've confronted many members on the forum, as you know, and I've seen on many occasions long winded replies. Sometimes the length of response was warranted to clarify something, other times the response is their internal dialog activated to defend and defend and defend. When I see your short response here, I see that you've forgone the need to explain yourself to everyone--the latter which is to keep yourself constructed and put together nice and tidy, and rather you are here taking responsibility by not issuing a defense. Bravo. Its the voice that, once exposed, seeks to defend itself, and this is what is to be stopped. If you are not empty, then there is something to be done about it, because something has filled your emptiness and it should not be there, because it is our inherited state, this emptiness. We should guard it with all we got. Which is nothing, because we are empty. Lucky, While I felt your confrontation here was well-timed and appropriate, I just read over in loving ourselves thread your defending defending defending about the meaning of love and your stance as correct. So, we need to have a balance. When we confront others, we must also simultaneously confront ourselves so that we move parallel with people rather then always trying to be ahead of them.  Trust yourself ...
you've got nothing to lose
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lucky |
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Posts: 80 (01/29/09 19:02:33) Administration
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Tiffany wrote:Lol, that was my first insight, almost 30 years ago. I'm not stuck there.
I only like leading a little more than I enjoy following. I practice both relatively often, as well as walking parallel too. :) While I don't feel a need to defend my position on love, I also don't have many opportunities to practice my presentation. chris |
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Tiffany |
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Posts: 2678 (01/29/09 19:21:49) |
Lucky,
You talk of holding up mirrors and such for your fellow men, but won't look in it to see your own image. 
The mirror should be empty. 
Trust yourself ...
you've got nothing to lose
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lucky |
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Posts: 82 (01/29/09 19:58:21) Administration
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lol,
maybe thats why I am reluctant to cut my beard, lol even after years of Mary yelling at me, I haven't become any good at using my "indoor voice". On the other hand, in person I am very friendly, gentle, helpful, and I even express tenderness in certain circumstances. I'll look more closely into what you said Tiffany, thanks. chris |
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Tiffany |
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Posts: 2679 (01/29/09 20:22:07) |
Lucky,
I feel you responded to my post without really taking in what I said. That you approached it with a detached perspective, but not the detachment that is inaccessibility, rather the detachment that indicates you are accessible and so need to distance yourself from what was exposed in you. Your small talk alerts me you are trying to neutralize the significance of what was confronted by using mundane gestures of 'same ole same ole': "The thing is. It's just me, what about me? no biggie. Ok thanks" Its our own dialog we must become inaccessible to. Because it seeks to trap us within layers of comfort, that are lies. Trust yourself ...
you've got nothing to lose
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spectral |
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Posts: 892 (01/29/09 22:34:44) Moderator
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"""We should guard it with all we got. Which is nothing, because we are empty.""" (Tiff)
The wide open spaces within. Thankyou. |
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lucky |
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Posts: 87 (01/29/09 23:05:50) Administration
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Tiffany wrote:What I read from you was that I need to look at the lion in the mirror so to speak, and empty myself of what makes me carry that image. With your help I saw that lion as Lujan's reflection of me and it was an affirmation of your post above his. What I posted was all I had for connections in the moment but I am not passing it off. They may have seemed trite, but they are meaningful in the light of your comments just the same. I can see myself in that way, but I hadn't thought seriously about clearing it out until now. I meant what I said. My thanks should have been followed by this: 
chris |
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Tiffany |
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Posts: 2689 (01/30/09 01:26:29) |
Lucky,
We buffer ourselves in interaction. We feel that if we can smooth things over externally, then internally we'll be balanced. It actually works the opposite. If we examine internally what occurs externally, we'll balance through self-observation that can then decide what to stop doing because it's unnecessary and a hindrance to our balance. Then in future interaction, we can act upon our observations, and in this way we accumulate power, internal integrity externalized and through correct action, self-reflection ceases. I still feel you used a 'friendly gesture' to take attention off yourself in post 147. Whether or not you did is your decision to make upon reading this. The point is to not buffer ourselves through employing our social skills so that externally we can appear to balance, yet internally we remain unbalanced by what we keep hidden, even to ourselves sometimes, which is that which should be kicked out for good--the invader, the installment. Trust yourself ...
you've got nothing to lose
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lucky |
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Posts: 95 (01/30/09 16:33:14) Administration
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Tiffany wrote:That would be where it counts most. Whatever you percieve that I am hiding from myself, I have no qualms about you pointing it out to me. I can only tell you that I will try to pay attention and not be resistant to your insights. chris |
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Tiffany |
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Posts: 2693 (01/30/09 18:47:36) |
Lucky,
You don't need to tell me anything. I'm not expecting anything from you one way or another. Its not that we resist another's insights, we resist changing ourselves. From the same ole same ole, our habitual responses that evade our detection. Another's insights is really the impersonal. It can come thorough anyone: animals, trees, people. Trust yourself ...
you've got nothing to lose
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lucky |
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Posts: 96 (01/30/09 19:48:58) Administration
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Tiffany wrote:i know chris |
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yillecka.sorcery |
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Posts: 119 (02/01/09 16:15:17) Administration
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I've been away - this thread has accumulated some power. Like pin the tail on the donkey without the blindfold.
While I was away I felt something very strongly - I know hundreds of people there, I was visiting my old home, where I worked, where I have lived for about 20 years. Our over familiarity with each other breeds a certain kind of character asassination - done in the spirit of 'working each other out' or exposing something, but mostly I think, not exposing the right thing to the right person. What i felt strongly was how easy it is for us, for me, to speak about some 'drama' that actually causes in my being a pressure that I feel I need to let out. In letting that pressure out and speaking of the 'thing' to a 'friend', I lose the power, the pressure, that would actually enable me to confront the person directly and deal with the 'thing' properly. So the very thing that makes me feel 'better' is disempowering to me at best, and is harmful to others at worst. I think if I practice not letting go of the 'pressure' to a third party, that the situation causing grief will either become intolerable, and I will know it is improper and not be able to stand it, and will deal with it appropriately, or the pressure will give me the power and impetus to speak my truth directly. I was able to confront a situation that had caused me a great deal of grief, where I felt I was being subtly attacked and undermined. It had been bothering me for months and I would wake up in the night after dreaming of it and not be able to go back to sleep. I had not been able to speak about it to anyone, so I did two things - I wrote a letter to one of the persons involved and when I went away I met with another one of the people and spoke about my feelings to her directly. I feel resolved about this now and no longer lose sleep or give the situation my energy. Harnessing that pressure that makes me feel uncomfortable in order to hold it till it can be let go appropriately is very difficult for me sometimes. Yet I feel that it will give me the strength to be clearer about what is acceptable to my heart, and what is not. |
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Tiffany |
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Posts: 2725 (02/01/09 16:40:32) |
"I think if I practice not letting go of the 'pressure' to a third party, that the situation causing grief will either become intolerable, and I
will know it is improper and not be able to stand it, and will deal with it appropriately, or the pressure will give me the power and impetus to speak my truth
directly."
Gabrielle, Yes, from my experiences, this has been true as well. Forcing myself to stop gossip was a big redeployment of energy. Even trivial gossip can eat up loads of energy and also feed imprints subtly by providing a sense of social acceptance and superiority that keeps the imprints submerged from conscious view. When one stops all gossip, then your imprints spring up to the surface like dead fish float up in a pond. Then you can deal with them, clear them away because you see them clearly. Gossiping and character assassination are forms of wearing blinders. It shields one from seeing themselves clearly. And, of course, does much more damage than that. Trust yourself ...
you've got nothing to lose
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yillecka.sorcery |
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Posts: 121 (02/01/09 20:05:45) Administration
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like dead fish in a pond!!!! Indeed, lovely, smelly imagery - so apt! Nice to hear you again.
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Tiffany |
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Posts: 2737 (02/01/09 20:44:56) |
yes, as I typed the analogy, I was feeling exactly as you described. I wondered if you would pick up on it, I felt you would, and you did :)
Now we can imagine we take those fish (this is something the Chinese do here) and plant them in the ground as fertilizer, and something beautiful results. 
Love to you Gabrielle! Thanks for this sharing of cognitive inversions with me. It's exciting when others see the inversions with me. Trust yourself ...
you've got nothing to lose
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