Our truth can easily adapt

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Tiffany		#121	[-]
Posts: 2606 (01/24/09 01:17:28) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"and whatever it is that was hurt and wants to retaliate is pushed into the periphery. I can see it as if through a transparent barrier within a calm cocoon. And nothing hurts....it's over there and it's not me. I'm not identified with it, so I can call it for what it is." Glance, Yes, that's it :) It's a paradoxical truth that to admit it is to free ourselves from it so that it becomes like it was never us to begin with, because truly it never was. Its a good feeling, this emptiness, I agree. Keep going with it! And I will do the same. Trust yourself ... you've got nothing to lose Last Edited By: Tiffany 01/24/09 01:46:59. Edited 1 times.
glance left		#122	[-]
Posts: 2634 (01/24/09 15:54:05) Administration Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I'm on it!
sidarther		#123	[-]
Posts: 199 (01/24/09 16:25:13) Administration Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	glance left wrote: In one moment, what you said hurts...something feels threatened and wants to indulge in all kinds of sophisticated reason in order to wear you down and....or wants to simply agree with you in order to get your focus away from me as quickly as possible...even if it means cowering until you leave me alone... And I can admit that, yes, I indulged in all kinds of nastiness in order to get the upper hand here in this forum...because "I'm smarter" "Tiffany's a bitch....an arrogant monster" "she's needs to be cut down to size...and I'll help her with that"... I couldn't imagine that you don't do the same thing that I do...namely draw conclusions about people and sustain it as a judgment with the need to seek confederates to support that judgment. I've seen myself do it and was convinced....needed for you to do it to so that I could feel, at least for a little while longer, that it was o.k. that I still compromised myself in this way. My mind is seeking support...looking for a corner to curl up and nest in hoping that no one notices....hoping for a little more time. Time's up!... Here's the lie, everyone. The lie is that you will not be able to stand it...to have "it" exposed and stretched out and cut off cleanly. That it will be painful and protracted and humiliating beyond what you can stand. From my experience, this only happens when..in that moment that the blade is whistling through the air, we cringe and try to withdraw...to pull it back and protect it. It's bullshit! When I stretch the neck out and give room for the clean cut, the liberation is immediate and profound. This shit works! I don't think I'll ever leave. I will stay...and have that thing exposed again and again until I find and abide in that calm empty center. Let 'er rip. Glance, When I read your post I was transported back to Bali and all the shit that got stirred up in me while facing the Nagual. The degree of discomfort experienced while getting hammered is difficult describe, and hard to unravel. Without a doubt, feeling the unique discomfort of such a "split" is a harbinger. When you say "looking for a corner to curl up" - this is the business as usual side exerting its desire to claw its way back to the comforts of compromise. The other side, the awareness "in our chest" as you call it, stands tall facing the onslaught without need to react, or lash out. This part of us feels pain more intimately, and these blows of integrity cauterize the barrier to our heart. The first side defends the barrier that masquerades as our "heart" in order to uphold its lies; while the latter accepts getting dragged through the dirt, getting cut up and bruised, because this "split" is a death of sorts. I feel the raw honesty of your post and just wanted to say that was fucking beautiful!
glance left		#124	[-]
Posts: 2635 (01/24/09 18:04:48) Administration Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"The other side, the awareness "in our chest" as you call it, stands tall facing the onslaught without need to react, or lash out. This part of us feels pain more intimately, and these blows of integrity cauterize the barrier to our heart. The first side defends the barrier that masquerades as our "heart" in order to uphold its lies; while the latter accepts getting dragged through the dirt, getting cut up and bruised, because this "split" is a death of sorts." Sidd...this is a perfect way of putting it. Thank you. Yes, I'm feeling perhaps the very beginning of what its like to truly lay down a perimeter and sustain a defense by holding tight. Talking about it and actually doing it are different things entirely.
sidarther		#125	[-]
Posts: 202 (01/24/09 19:30:45) Administration Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"holding tight" or perhaps letting go. I agree doing is different than talking. But seeing how we are talking in this medium, and seeing people honest and transparent, confronting with integrity, this mere talk transforms into a doing. What is being bounced around in this thread and this forum can be bounced out, interesting - isn't it? If we walk our talk, our talk is our walk.
glance left		#126	[-]
Posts: 2639 (01/24/09 20:17:22) Administration Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"this mere talk transforms into a doing" True!
spectral		#127	[-]
Posts: 886 (01/27/09 02:53:27) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Glance, great!!!! I find threads on the forum that seem to open doors for me to have input but when I examine that input something is wrong. My mind seems to be overly investing in my communications and I am in the habit of ignoring it and so it slips by unnoticed. In seemingly innocent sharing in which no lie is spoken there is an intent of pure hatred and the feeling of having been betrayed. Although subtle, it is there and although extreme, it is the same old thing which is actually quite boring in a way. Im vain enough to feel great in myself and smooth inside and empty even, but somethjing somehow alerts me to what my mind is covertly projecting from some part of myself which is conveniently closed down into pleasant numbness, like an opiate or something. The imprint at the source of my mind is the hatred at having been betrayed which becomes the pain and nasty struggle for a cruel dominance, all steeped in separation and subversive secrecy. Recognising that subtlety reveals the imprint which is the source of it and that perspective is one of being trapped and frustrated and separated, ready to strike out with cruelty and venom, like a coiled serpent. The perspective of that imprint is one of being invulnerable yet separate and in pain. It doesnt bring emotion to the surface in outbursts or moods as one might expect, instead it draws me deeper in to darker places, further and further into secrecy and aloneness with an increasingly hardening heart. The agenda almost never becomes personal, but remains universally against humanity in general. A part of myself has always had the tendency to be like this and I have been consumed many times, but also many times it has gone on without me knowing or admitting while "the rest of me" could get on with life. Many times I have had to ignore it completely to be able to continue my life and so I proceed as though it isnt there and this screens it out from people and keeps me partly out of reach which is just in separation from totality. Sometimes there is a continuous pull to retreat and to sink in deeper and deeper and to turn away from the light, like a vampire. If I succum to that pull there is no great explosion of anything and no overt consequence, I just end up slowly drifting away from my true life path. Its like being subtly locked into something which is the control based parameters of my mind, even though I sometimes dont notice my mind doing anything in particular, just its presence, even subtly is enough to lock me into the invulnerable separation cage, which ironically, only I have the key to. It takes suchj an extreme amount of will power to keep that door open. There is a tiny spark of light at the very centre if I can hold that position and it cuts through the heavy blanket of pain. There is no such thing as "letting go" or "going with the flow" or embracing emptiness" for me at this time, these are dangerous excuses. There is only pushing and fighting and resisting against every moment as hard as I can at all times. There is no graceful acceptance, no "fluid adaption", all that is a trecherous trick for me. Stand my ground with an iron fist and nothing else!
spectral		#128	[-]
Posts: 887 (01/27/09 03:23:42) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	If what Iam saying makes sense to myself then it is corrupted. In truth there is no knowing and no knowledge. "Knowing" may appear at some time or other spontaneously but it cannot ever be relied on or expected or desired or required in any way. Its simply a "bonus" that may or may not appear from time to time when no expectation is in place. The only reliable fact is that we do not know and can never know and any knowing that may visit is, for me, just for fun and any other approach is not who Iam but the mind of something else. I am the one who will never know. Maybe this is what is meant by emptiness? Im not sure... I personnally reject the term emptiness. The only state that ever feels truly empty to me is the shadows dream. Any time my truth is even remotely engaged, there is electric luminous intensity. There may be a neutrality that cancels out identifiable familiarity oh wait, now I know what Im saying while saying this so its automatically corrupted by the fact that I know Im resisting what is accepted and am going through the motions of "making a point" that nobody should really bother giving a damn about, even though I totally mean it. I dont mean to negate the value of anything for anyone else, but I do mean to represent in language the resolutions I need to make within my own cognition. Emptiness is empty compliance. Emptying is what my asshole does every morning around breakfast time.
sidarther		#129	[-]
Posts: 209 (01/27/09 19:58:45) Administration Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	spectral wrote: ... My mind seems to be overly investing in my communications and I am in the habit of ignoring it and so it slips by unnoticed. In seemingly innocent sharing in which no lie is spoken there is an intent of pure hatred and the feeling of having been betrayed... Im vain enough to feel great in myself and smooth inside and empty even, but somethjing somehow alerts me to what my mind is covertly projecting from some part of myself which is conveniently closed down into pleasant numbness, like an opiate or something. The imprint at the source of my mind is the hatred at having been betrayed which becomes the pain and nasty struggle for a cruel dominance, all steeped in separation and subversive secrecy. Recognising that subtlety reveals the imprint which is the source of it and that perspective is one of being trapped and frustrated and separated, ready to strike out with cruelty and venom, like a coiled serpent. The perspective of that imprint is one of being invulnerable yet separate and in pain. It doesnt bring emotion to the surface in outbursts or moods as one might expect, instead it draws me deeper in to darker places, further and further into secrecy and aloneness with an increasingly hardening heart. The agenda almost never becomes personal, but remains universally against humanity in general. A part of myself has always had the tendency to be like this and I have been consumed many times, but also many times it has gone on without me knowing or admitting while "the rest of me" could get on with life. Many times I have had to ignore it completely to be able to continue my life and so I proceed as though it isnt there and this screens it out from people and keeps me partly out of reach which is just in separation from totality. Sometimes there is a continuous pull to retreat and to sink in deeper and deeper and to turn away from the light, like a vampire. If I succum to that pull there is no great explosion of anything and no overt consequence, I just end up slowly drifting away from my true life path. Its like being subtly locked into something which is the control based parameters of my mind, even though I sometimes dont notice my mind doing anything in particular, just its presence, even subtly is enough to lock me into the invulnerable separation cage, which ironically, only I have the key to. It takes suchj an extreme amount of will power to keep that door open. There is a tiny spark of light at the very centre if I can hold that position and it cuts through the heavy blanket of pain. There is no such thing as "letting go" or "going with the flow" or embracing emptiness" for me at this time, these are dangerous excuses. There is only pushing and fighting and resisting against every moment as hard as I can at all times. There is no graceful acceptance, no "fluid adaption", all that is a trecherous trick for me. Stand my ground with an iron fist and nothing else! Spectral, whoa man! Such clarity. You shine a bright spotlight on hidden elements, those that like being left alone to linger and spread like a festering wound. I feel revealed through your revelations - that part that scampers like a cockroach from the lightshine. Unabashed acknowledgement like this is so heartening and uplifting because exposing the secrecy and anger that undermines, yet eludes detection seems of paramount importance. Don't let up, lets never let up, if we get our heel on a neck lets pin it down. If we are willing to do this, I guess our truth really can adapt.
spectral		#130	[-]
Posts: 888 (01/27/09 20:33:49) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Sid, """Such clarity. You shine a bright spotlight on hidden elements, those that like being left alone to linger and spread like a festering wound. I feel revealed through your revelations - that part that scampers like a cockroach from the lightshine. Unabashed acknowledgement like this is so heartening and uplifting because exposing the secrecy and anger that undermines, yet eludes detection seems of paramount importance. Don't let up, lets never let up, if we get our heel on a neck lets pin it down. If we are willing to do this, I guess our truth really can adapt.""" I feel totally supported by you. We stand together! When I wrote the post you have quoted it was like literally digging myself out of a self imposed pit through the act of writing it. Yes, lets pin that sucker down! I said: """Maybe this is what is meant by emptiness? Im not sure... I personnally reject the term emptiness. The only state that ever feels truly empty to me is the shadows dream. Any time my truth is even remotely engaged, there is electric luminous intensity. There may be a neutrality that cancels out identifiable familiarity oh wait, now I know what Im saying while saying this so its automatically corrupted by the fact that I know Im resisting what is accepted and am going through the motions of "making a point" that nobody should really bother giving a damn about, even though I totally mean it. I dont mean to negate the value of anything for anyone else, but I do mean to represent in language the resolutions I need to make within my own cognition. Emptiness is empty compliance. Emptying is what my asshole does every morning around breakfast time.""" This is my truth which I certainly mean when I say it, yet somehow I was subtly haunted by this post, as though a fragment of my mind was attached to it and thus I wasnt quite at rest with it. What was intertwined beneath my expression of truth was an immature unwillingness to accept responsibility for my own inability to accept responsibility previously, LOL. What Im referring to is that the term "emptiness" and its use on this forum has had a very negative effect on me because of my subtle nihilistic shadow side which is the very essence of the word "emptiness", while the real emptiness which is of the warriors path actually feels like overflowing intensity which cancels out all individual characteristics in the perciever - not something I would call "empty" at all, rather something bursting with neutral and intangible potency instead of determinable character. Anyway, the terminology tricked me subtly through my own shadow attention in just the same way as Castanedas terminology has done in the past until I was able to wake up to that with Lujans help. For example "being inaccessible" as Castaneda presents it through his teachings was damaging to me because my shadow attention is also extremely secretive in nature, so it fucked me up. But the truth is that I was subtly blaming the terminology itself, with Castaneda, and with "emptiness" when in fact it was entirely my own responsibility the entire time. One thing that surprises me though, is that with all my "learning" about "emptiness" over the past year which I have referenced on the forum has been shadow bullshit but nobody ever called me on it and so I felt slightly let down when I realised it... I felt unsupported somehow. But the trick is trickier than that because my so called "emptiness" was a tricky shadow which separated me from connection and support and subtly undermined the transparency which I valued so I was probably just not being transparent enough to allow people to see my illusions that even I didnt see. How convenient, LOL. I think that Lujan must have seen what was happening to me though... but I had to learn my lesson by myself as usual :-) When I realised my hidden justification for not having accepted responsibility for my own down fall with terminology I actually felt the nervousness of confrontation when coming to post, like I was "fronting up" to myself.
bit shiny		#131	[-]
Posts: 381 (01/27/09 23:05:37) Moderator Guardian Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Spectral, "There is no such thing as "letting go" or "going with the flow" or embracing emptiness" for me at this time, these are dangerous excuses. There is only pushing and fighting and resisting against every moment as hard as I can at all times. There is no graceful acceptance, no "fluid adaption", all that is a trecherous trick for me. Stand my ground with an iron fist and nothing else! " The observations you have made cut deep into the stance which is beneath the surface inhibiting the free expression and fluid adaption of the heart. I feel what you said and recognise something in me which also inhibits the way I allow things to be processed through the corrupted avenues of thinking along detremental lines similarly to what you have uncovered in yourself here. I felt this to be deeply close and confronting to the essence of the tricks used to keep us from fluidity. Taking responsibility and exposing what is hidden I feel is great for the shock value of confronting and recognising, which then can be cut away from us. I just wanted to say that be careful how you allow your self to process this and avoid kicking yourself through identifying with what you have observed although not giving mercy to what has been uncovered , but to stay focussed and connected through your child "heart" and not to merge the perception of corruption with this pure heart,through further identifying it as "you" it exists within you but to still trust yourself and feel that connection to heart now that you are alerted to what avenues of corruption are being seen. So not to merge the description as though it is connected to that child, but to see it as distinctly separate and therefore not in your nature of heart and not therefore further feeding into it by not allowing recognition of it as self but maintaining a observational solid platform through heart. Just wanted to say although there is upheaval, that fighting may be done through maintaining vigilance through the heart, however fighting for our hearts is stopping fighting with ourselves and resigning to that peace within also.
bit shiny		#132	[-]
Posts: 382 (01/27/09 23:08:30) Moderator Guardian Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Trust the heart
spectral		#133	[-]
Posts: 890 (01/28/09 02:10:24) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Thanks Shiny! I really did feel a sense of child like innocence deep inside while reading your words... like a cool breeze. And it gave me a feeling of relief to remember that all of that shadow is not actually me at all, even though Im learning to take responsibility for it. My heart is totally unscathed by all of this, so no worries, but its always great to be re acquainted with the fact that the purest of innocence is always there. Cheers bro! And cool frog by the way... cute! Life is a joy isnt it? To be alive... wow. Im still really blown away by Lujan right now... Im so amazed that he never lost sight of my true life path, even when I had lost it myself. How amazing is that? Seems like you have your eye on the true spectral as well. Love to you shiny :-)
bit shiny		#134	[-]
Posts: 383 (01/28/09 03:43:24) Moderator Guardian Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	dancing in the moonlight ,everybody dancing in the moonlight, just because .........
glance left		#135	[-]
Posts: 2655 (01/28/09 07:07:26) Administration Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"Recognising that subtlety reveals the imprint which is the source of it and that perspective is one of being trapped and frustrated and separated, ready to strike out with cruelty and venom, like a coiled serpent. The perspective of that imprint is one of being invulnerable yet separate and in pain. It doesnt bring emotion to the surface in outbursts or moods as one might expect, instead it draws me deeper in to darker places, further and further into secrecy and aloneness with an increasingly hardening heart. The agenda almost never becomes personal, but remains universally against humanity in general." Spectral !!! Spectral, There it is. You've exposed me along with yourself with these words, Spectral. There's a part of me that loathes my fellow man...because of the very imprint that you mention that is unresolved. It hides and rides along my path of "progress" invested in some fantasy future when I'll "leave all you fuckers behind". Bit, Your words are right on....being gentle with ourselves, forgiving ourselves will still being austere enough to expose what needs to be amputated and being fierce enough to not compromise the fight to create a perimeter of integrity within our hearts. I'm feeling something of this war right now...and whatever it is that I'm warring with is leaving me with little in the way of pleasant feelings.....like dying of thirst or something. The mind actually CRAVES....scrabbles for anything...even for something as inane as the "evening news"...something it can lick up to perpetuate itself. LOL ..."the news". I saw a local news station van pass me on the highway the other day, obviously in a hurry to get to "ground zero" wherever "breaking news" was blooming. The slogan on the side of the van said "Channel 13 news.....We've got you covered!" I had to laugh...even though I was disturbed. Yeah, I know what's "covering" me, too....with the need to follow the news. It's a swatch of cloth from that cloak of the shadow's mind, that's what! Here's to the fight! To being gentle and fierce all in the same moment.
sidarther		#136	[-]
Posts: 210 (01/28/09 07:46:28) Administration Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"When I realised my hidden justification for not having accepted responsibility for my own down fall with terminology I actually felt the nervousness of confrontation when coming to post, like I was "fronting up" to myself." Spectral, its funny you mention this. Your post #127 was noticeably absent of jargon that entangles. When I said 'such clarity' I was referring to how clear your voice was in that post. Jargon/ terminology/ cliche seem obstructions in language that prevent us from "fronting up" as you say. We can rely on them when we don't want to be honest and do the work necessary to truly express ourselves. But searching for the most appropriate way to express a feeling we are having that is hard to explain, especially when it differs from the way others have explained it - damn, collective intensification (simultaneous enhancement)
lucky		#137	[-]
Posts: 64 (01/28/09 08:41:41) Administration Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	spectral wrote: ... In seemingly innocent sharing in which no lie is spoken there is an intent of pure hatred and the feeling of having been betrayed... Im vain enough to feel great in myself and smooth inside and empty even... Where's the emptiness? I see hatred, betrayal, vanity, self absorption, but not emptiness. To me you seem all wound up. Your posts rattle on about yourself like there was nothing else. Thats a signal that your self needs aren't being fulfilled, ie. the need for an accurate and acceptable self image. I read the beginning of your alchemy thread and thought, "Lujan is right, you are unhinged." lol Hatred is a projection of alienated (unacceptable) aspects of yourself. Reclaim those parts of yourself and the hatred dissolves. chris
nagual		#138	[-]
Posts: 55 (01/28/09 14:54:47) Lujan Matus ~Founder~ Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	lucky wrote: spectral wrote: ... In seemingly innocent sharing in which no lie is spoken there is an intent of pure hatred and the feeling of having been betrayed... Im vain enough to feel great in myself and smooth inside and empty even... Where's the emptiness? I see hatred, betrayal, vanity, self absorption, but not emptiness. To me you seem all wound up. Your posts rattle on about yourself like there was nothing else. Thats a signal that your self needs aren't being fulfilled, ie. the need for an accurate and acceptable self image. I read the beginning of your alchemy thread and thought, "Lujan is right, you are unhinged." lol Hatred is a projection of alienated (unacceptable) aspects of yourself. Reclaim those parts of yourself and the hatred dissolves.
Tiffany		#139	[-]
Posts: 2657 (01/28/09 19:13:55) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I think I'm going to call you "tough talkin Lucky" Your post reminded me of a sheriff that comes into a saloon of outlaws and when he parts those swingin doors, all the card playin hustlers get real quiet and say "oh shit, Sheriff Lucky's in town, party's over boys." Spectral, you're still trying to get a foothold. Lucky has pointed this out to you and all of us here and I agree with it. Even though you are addressing what is confronting you, you are still not taking responsibility for it. There is a quality of pausing, waiting for the storm to pass so you can resume your MO. You are presenting yourself as humbled, but as Lucky says, you're posts rattle on. And in your rattling, you are still trying to maintain control even if to appear co-operative. Get to real emptiness. Take responsibility rather than post about it. Not to say don't post, I do want you to post. I'm saying take responsibility for your posts. Use your posting as opportunities to do this, unhinge your MO. Trust yourself ... you've got nothing to lose
Tiffany		#140	[-]
Posts: 2659 (01/28/09 19:32:20) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	naomni wrote: And there it was, the responsibility, back in my hands where I needed it to be. He asked me what I had done to create the situation. It was a very important point for me to take into account - now and always - turning the tools of perception to the task of self-regulating instead of looking outward and projecting those frames onto others in order to avoid introspection that may reveal something I don't want to acknowledge, or to sustain an idea of myself that I am not willing to relinquish. It is too easy to go that way. Especially as I also had the idea of being 'more intelligent' than others and therefore put myself in a position of judgement or superiority. (uurrk!) Spectral, I quoted Naomi here because of what she talks about intelligence and its clever ploys, but that same intelligence can be turned inward to examine and dismantle the ploys. So, intelligence can be a curse, but it can also be a blessing when used effectively. Trust yourself ... you've got nothing to lose Last Edited By: Tiffany 01/28/09 19:41:39. Edited 1 times.

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