Our truth can easily adapt

RSS
Email

0 Kudo

Forum Jump

Author	Comment
glance left		#41	[-]
Posts: 2598 (01/19/09 10:02:29) Administration Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"The next time I felt a pressure I was driving with a friend and I wondered if there was something I needed to confront. I was feeling a sort of mood from him, as though a subtle judgment or something that was pressing on me. I wanted to be fully aware of it so I could know how to bring it up as I couldnt quite define what it was, so I paid close attention. What unfolded over the next couple of minutes was a series of subtle omens that somehow correlated to the pressure I was feeling. The omens awakened me to a personal habit of mine and in that moment I realised that what I was feeling from my friend was actually an invitation for me to drop that habit, even though my friend didnt know about my habit consciously." This is exactly what happened when I confronted Tiffany with something that I perceived in her behavior towards a family member who had written a letter to her loaded with agenda. I was convinced that there was something of a "filter of expectation" with Tiffany associated with how her family would respond if she responded clearly and directly with her truth....an expectation that they would behave in a certain negative manner. I hadn't taken a reflective pause to expand my view and went ahead with the confrontation anyway. What happened almost immediately afterward was a similar series of omens, as you mention here Spectral, that clearly pointed to the same behavior that I was manifesting that I thought was clear in Tiffany. Shortly thereafter, I had to admit that the behavior was mine...the habit was mine. Still is, in fact. HABITS! Sheesh...the wishful thinking is that they simply go away when we announce their presence! ;) Case in point... In the situation where I was recently terminated from my position at the university hospital...same hospital, same department where my father works...dad was adamant about having a pow wow with the CEO of the whole hospital about the incident...even though I had let it all go and really didn't want him to apply leverage associated with using the power of his "name" to get different results. In spite of this, dad couldn't simply let the situation go...in spite of his respect for my choice of impassivity. He felt it important to voice his concern about the dismissive way the hospital let me go...felt it was not respectful and, in many ways, inhumane. At one point, before the meeting, he asked me what I thought about the upcoming meeting. I replied that I thought the meeting would be a polite but offhand dismissal of dad's concerns. I was convinced that UAB was simply a giant corporate body within which the CEO was a subservient VIP. My view was colored of course by all kinds of expectations made up by the "haunting of history" that you so aptly describe above, Spectral. The oppression that I thought I was experiencing was not real. What actually happened was an utter surprise. Upon dad's report of the meeting, the CEO was actually verbally embarrassed about what had gone on in my dismissal. He acknowledged that, upon his investigation of my situation, that I was truly a valued employee and, even though they had to let me go because of a bureaucratic policy in place to protect their relationship to federal funding, the way I was released was inappropriate...and as soon as I settled the affair with the federal bureaucratic agency that I had an issue with...I would be rehired on the spot. He even sent me a letter offering his personal good reference for any job I might be looking for in the interim. Spot on, Spectral! "This is not a fixed conclusion, but as far as I can tell there is truthfully no interference from anyone in my life at the moment and so the responsibility lands squarely on me, even though it still would if there was interference happening." This statement here....there is something very powerful in it...something that resonates with a very deep truth to me. I'm beginning to wonder about the notion of "interference"....to wonder if, really, there is any interference at all that is "out there"...and not simply a reflection, on one level or another, of being haunted by a history of imprintation, as you say. Regardless....the lesson for me is, at the very least, to take a pause...and expand the scope of my view...looking deeply and openly and honestly....before focusing on something that seems to be coming at me from "out there" Last Edited By: glance left 01/19/09 20:26:44. Edited 1 times.
Jaguar Nagual		#42	[-]
Posts: 424 (01/19/09 18:15:45) Lujan Matus Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Spectral, interesting philosophy. When I perused it it wasn't quite believable. It sends the message that if anything is occurring it is somebody else's responsibility; not yours. Interesting twist of words that I just displayed isn't it? Because in essence if it is all you that has to be altered and the other equation or person is the trigger, then when you are confronted, as you have been and haven't answered in previous threads, what you've conveniently done here with your writings is to indirectly address those accusations towards you with a neat sewn up philosophy that requires the other person to take responsibility. You've forgotten one thing: Intervention of spirit and the capacity to see within multiples. It's too linear within its pragmatism It is the philosophy that defines a guru. Or better yet, the foundations of a type of maneuvering which will release you from responsibility, even though in your writings you point at yourself. In actuality you are levering toward others within your writing. Convenient way not to take responsibility. It is not the presentation that should be fathomed in the light that has been given; it is the ultimate outcome of the writing that herds and directs. Lots of love to you.
lucky		#43	[-]
Posts: 47 (01/19/09 19:31:42) Administration Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	This also showed me that the oppression I feel in interaction is coming from myself and not others. Shortly thereafter, I had to admit that the behavior was mine...the habit was mine. Regardless of whether the projection fits or not, the fact remains that the feelings one has - arise from within. It is relatively easy to see ones hidden problems reflected in others. Accepting the inner origin of all our anxieties is more difficult. chris
Richard		#44	[-]
Posts: 455 (01/19/09 19:43:39) Administration Four Pronged Nagual Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	This is oversimplified. We have to take responsibility for ourselves, but there is an intermingling effect when intentions cross one another and in this terms others can interfere with our own feelings/we can interfere with other peoples feelings. And this isn't something that is going on rarely, it happens all the time. And if you do not interfere with others, others can still interfere with you, if you allow it.
lucky		#45	[-]
Posts: 48 (01/19/09 20:39:58) Administration Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Richard wrote: ...others can still interfere with you, if you allow it. Short of coercion, no one does anything they do not choose to do. Often though, it is difficult to understand and accept why one would choose to do certain things. chris
Richard		#46	[-]
Posts: 456 (01/19/09 20:45:58) Administration Four Pronged Nagual Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	? What are you trying to say?
glance left		#47	[-]
Posts: 2599 (01/19/09 21:18:26) Administration Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	OK...the direction of this thread is apropos for me right now. Call it a clash of ideologies. On the one hand, in the dream of daily life, practical situations demand practical responses. We see "truth" in seeing someone else's error and voice it accordingly...I've done so many times now...and teach my children about this phenomenon, in so many word, daily. But, then again, how do I come to terms with the possibility of seeing through this dream? Seeing that the whole thing.....a world of people and a world of objects is really a projection of my own....the "facade" that was revealed to me, in such an abrasively disruptive fashion when I had my world dismantled during the Salvia experience? How can I do this if I still interpret the world at large out there as being something truly "out there" and capable of interference with whatever is "in here"? Isn't this simply an interpretation...the notion of "interference" anyways? What is interfering with what, exactly? I remember don Juan saying that "No one is doing anything to anyone, especially a warrior". At the time, I remember nodding my head and knowing for a fact that it was true...I had an incredible epiphany with regard to it, to be precise. There was this marvelous transformation that shifted my perspective regarding "all those people out there" who were interfering with my life. The epiphany involved knowing that the only way I can be interfered with is if I cling to and around something that can be objectified in the interplay of "interference" in the first place. That is why the story of the man driving a boat and running into the empty skiff had such an impact on me. Here is the quote, put in Inspirational Posts by Lujan "If a man is crossing a river and an empty boat collides with his own skiff, even though he be a bad-tempered man he will not become very angry. But if he sees a man in the boat, he will shout at him to steer clear. If the shout is not heard, he will shout again, and yet again, and begin cursing. And all because there is somebody in the boat. Yet if the boat were empty, he would not be shouting, and not angry. If you can empty your own boat crossing the river of the world, no one will oppose you, no one will seek to harm you.... Who can free himself from achievement, and from fame, descend and be lost amid the masses of men? He will flow like Tao, unseen, he will go about like Life itself with no name and no home. Simple is he, without distinction. To all appearances he is a fool. His steps leave no trace. He has no power. He achieves nothing, has no reputation. Since he judges no one, no one judges him. Such is the perfect man: His boat is empty." Chuang Tzu The whole point, I thought, is that our cultivated state of emptiness shifts how we perceive the world and how the world perceives us. It begs the question, from me at this point......"How can emptiness be interfered with?" It can't! There is no object to be opposed. This is what I thought Spectral was alluding to when he's talked about "neutralization"...a neutralization that doesn't come about by equally opposing a force with an opposite and equal force....like the pure dampening of a wave by opposing it with the same amplitude, pitch, frequency but 180 degrees out of phase...or maybe it does relate to that somehow. It has to do with a state of perception....one within which the realization occurs that there is nothing opposing anything out there/in here or anywhere...and upholding the insistence of this view until the interpretation of interference is transformed into something more abstract...more in line with the fundamental principle of pervasive emptiness. Am I off base here? I truly feel ambivalent right now....pretty good indication that the mind is having a "hey day"! ;) Lujan, I'd like to here your elaboration, when you have time.
glance left		#48	[-]
Posts: 2600 (01/19/09 21:21:43) Administration Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"Upon realizing that what you are opposing is also a manifestation of the Spirit, you are freed from its (your own) antagonism. In a sense, detachment does not come from the decision (decidere- to cut off) to become more distinct but from a growing awareness of the connection with heartfelt wisdom that sees beyond the transient boundaries we call "self." Pointing Finger
lucky		#49	[-]
Posts: 49 (01/19/09 21:40:30) Administration Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	A way to tell the difference between ones projection (of unresolved issues) and ones perception of a true imprint in another is to check for an emotional response. If ones awareness of the "interference" brings any form of anxiety or tension then there is an internal source. A concrete example is when glance left accused me of coming here with an agenda to teach (in the hidden vs open thread). I say that was a projection. Only glance can know for certain, but I do know that I don't have much problem with teaching or being taught. chris
lucky		#50	[-]
Posts: 50 (01/19/09 21:45:21) Administration Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Richard wrote: ? What are you trying to say? You wrote: We have to take responsibility for ourselves, but... I'm saying - there is no but! chris
Richard		#51	[-]
Posts: 457 (01/19/09 22:37:47) Administration Four Pronged Nagual Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The but is not a compromise of responsibility, you say that "the feelings one has - arise from within", BUT there is the possibility that this is not the case. You still have responsibility. no one does anything they do not choose to do One does what-ever one is doing! Choice?
Tiffany		#52	[-]
Posts: 2584 (01/19/09 23:20:38) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Jaguar Nagual wrote: Because in essence if it is all you that has to be altered and the other equation or person is the trigger, then when you are confronted, as you have been and haven't answered in previous threads, what you've conveniently done here with your writings is to indirectly address those accusations towards you with a neat sewn up philosophy that requires the other person to take responsibility. This is true Spectral. You have been confronted, and you just sort of faded out and then came back with a new approach which was to pick up where you left off before the confrontations. I'm going to brag now. I NEVER do this. I stay and fight what I'm faced with which is subduing me. Because, why prolong what shouldn't be there in the first place? Why enable the shadow's dream, which sucks the life out of us if we enable it to, to persist any longer by protecting it? I see my warrior friends sheltering this shadow, and it is to their detriment. It's like sheltering a criminal, and I come knocking on your door. You answer smiling friendly, and behind you is the criminal glaring at me maliciously with a knife they are about to put in your back, but I can't say anything to you because you are the one who allowed them in and so when I tell you you are being unwise in giving them quarter, you fight me rather then turn to see what truly faces you. Trust yourself ... you've got nothing to lose
yillecka.sorcery		#53	[-]
Posts: 114 (01/20/09 01:46:52) Administration The Lovely Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	glance left wrote: I remember don Juan saying that "No one is doing anything to anyone, especially a warrior". At the time, I remember nodding my head and knowing for a fact that it was true...I had an incredible epiphany with regard to it, to be precise. There was this marvelous transformation that shifted my perspective regarding "all those people out there" who were interfering with my life. The epiphany involved knowing that the only way I can be interfered with is if I cling to and around something that can be objectified in the interplay of "interference" in the first place. That is why the story of the man driving a boat and running into the empty skiff had such an impact on me. Here is the quote, put in Inspirational Posts by Lujan "If a man is crossing a river and an empty boat collides with his own skiff, even though he be a bad-tempered man he will not become very angry. But if he sees a man in the boat, he will shout at him to steer clear. If the shout is not heard, he will shout again, and yet again, and begin cursing. And all because there is somebody in the boat. Yet if the boat were empty, he would not be shouting, and not angry. If you can empty your own boat crossing the river of the world, no one will oppose you, no one will seek to harm you.... Who can free himself from achievement, and from fame, descend and be lost amid the masses of men? He will flow like Tao, unseen, he will go about like Life itself with no name and no home. Simple is he, without distinction. To all appearances he is a fool. His steps leave no trace. He has no power. He achieves nothing, has no reputation. Since he judges no one, no one judges him. Such is the perfect man: His boat is empty." Chuang Tzu The whole point, I thought, is that our cultivated state of emptiness shifts how we perceive the world and how the world perceives us. It begs the question, from me at this point......"How can emptiness be interfered with?" It can't! There is no object to be opposed. This is what I thought Spectral was alluding to when he's talked about "neutralization"...a neutralization that doesn't come about by equally opposing a force with an opposite and equal force....like the pure dampening of a wave by opposing it with the same amplitude, pitch, frequency but 180 degrees out of phase...or maybe it does relate to that somehow. It has to do with a state of perception....one within which the realization occurs that there is nothing opposing anything out there/in here or anywhere...and upholding the insistence of this view until the interpretation of interference is transformed into something more abstract...more in line with the fundamental principle of pervasive emptiness. Am I off base here? I truly feel ambivalent right now....pretty good indication that the mind is having a "hey day"! ;) Lujan, I'd like to here your elaboration, when you have time.
yillecka.sorcery		#54	[-]
Posts: 115 (01/20/09 01:59:18) Administration The Lovely Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Well, I've learned how to use quote, but not how to add properly, so sorry about that. bit messy. I'm going to butt out, right now. But yes, Tiff, you always stay with it, and I appreciate it. And Glance, I loved your post. I loved don Juan saying we should leave people alone in our minds. And I don't always think someone is doing something to me, because I think that's my self important insecurity speaking.
yillecka.sorcery		#55	[-]
Posts: 116 (01/20/09 02:29:17) Administration The Lovely Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	And Spec, you often disappear. And Richard: Lucky was saying that sometimes we can't really accept that we bring upon ourselves the things we do. But we do. and we need to take responsiblilty for it. Whatever we are doing. And if we are feeling something, anything, we should be brave enough to get to the heart of it, it's either us, and our imprints that need flushing out, or it's something else. But whatever it is we should flush it out. Because we need, most of all, to be an empty boat. Is that it?
Jaguar Nagual		#56	[-]
Posts: 427 (01/20/09 03:23:09) Lujan Matus Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	spectral wrote: """I like portions of your writing, I enjoy reading them. What I am experiencing is that it all seems like you are talking about things that happen only to you, that you are not trying to see how your story is also everyone elses, and that if you were to see your story as everyone elses, the expression of it would be a process of open transfer that is up lifting to all because all are embraced in the telling. Right now it feels like you are trying to locate what makes you uniquely you, and so it makes me feel somewhat cut off from your experience as a result. Instead consider, perhaps what makes us unique is what unites us in our similarities of knowing without knowing how we know it.Tiffany """ Yes thats exactly it! Thats precisely what I also see about my writing although wasnt able to articulate. My own nose was too close to the process so I wasnt quite able to tell what was my own insecurity and what wasnt, but yes, you are spot on. What a gift it is to have clear people around! I know exactly what you mean about "if you were to see your story as everyone elses, the expression of it would be a process of open transfer that is up lifting to all because all are embraced in the telling" but Im finding it far easier said than done with this particular story... with other writings its the easiest thing in the world... To universalise the perspective in this way is to be of service and that was the essence of what was feeling not quite right. I feel that this experience was related to the illness I went through and I have been treating that part of myself as resolved (cause the symptoms are gone) when actually it isnt and so the writing is not of service. The subtle contradiction is that I can very clearly see exactly how this story is everyones story but at the same time I simply havent yet stabilised the level of awareness which was being referenced so I cannot properly embody that knowing. I chose to write this particular lesson because I knew it was what I have not yet resolved and I also knew it was what I now need to resolve but Im realising that its much larger than I thought. Its only been integrating for eleven years now, so it still needs a few more. LOL. At the beginning of the book idea I started gathering some old posts off the forum in search of potential chapter material so maybe some of that could be used for the book. It doesnt really matter to me because all the enthusiasm I have been feeling comes from the joy at knowing that the book is happening, not because of my own part in it. If theres anything I think would be good I will post it here. In all honesty I dont really have much to say to anyone these days. Instead of insights I now just have silent instincts which Im only at the very beginning of being able to grasp. Its just like starting at the very beginning again but this time Im not disturbed cause I know this happens for a few years every time I enter another level of awareness. (Of course there is still sometimes that paranoid thought that says "you have regressed 10 years" but it doesnt really hold up cause there are vast amounts of perceptual phenomena unaccounted for.) Things are pretty easy and smooth in the construct but the most difficult thing of all has actually been this forum (its normally the other way around for me LOL). I still have the desire to continue sharing my truth with all of you who I have met but all of a sudden I have nothing to share and no way to determine my truth. The insane solution which I have been mindlessly using for this problem was to just continue as though nothing is changed, even though everything has. This way I can continue to communicate within our shared subject matter by releasing stored energy which actually has no momentum behind it because it was gathered by my previous momentum before the shift. This is exactly the same strategy I was using last time a shift like this took place, only that time it was far more destructive and I was shifting the opposite way - away from instinct rather than towards it again as I am now. Even though Iam speaking whats on my heart, I somehow know Im lying because my perspective is not universal, which I know because in my previous awareness it was. This painful contradiction isnt present when I dont try to express myself directly in language but to withdraw from that expression also seems to feel wrong. When resolution is inaccessible but my heart calls me to continue I usually learn alot in the long run and lots of my life has been that way. I have been half way between being determined to continue learning to express my truth and disconnecting from everything totally. It would be much easier to just withdraw but I dont think thats what I really want.... or if it is Im still in denial of that. I have faith that the fragments will come together. I feel a resistance to posting this because it feels like such a manipulative lie, but if I could find something more truthful to say I would post that. I could of course simply delete all the bits where I mention my personal struggles but that would be self censorship. So I will post this horrible post and see what happens... sigh. *spectral* Last Edited By: Jaguar Nagual 01/20/09 18:38:15. Edited 1 times.
Jaguar Nagual		#57	[-]
Posts: 428 (01/20/09 03:24:39) Lujan Matus Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Richard wrote: When I read this the impression I get is that you are lost to yourself via your own interest. I know people who are manipulative via an intelligence which is gained through the previous use of power plants. This intelligence builds up philosophical knowledge that is highly sophisticated rather than down to the ground and these people are drawing others into agreement with their personal stance via the other persons interest. There is a subtle connection within these philosophies which include a kind of uniqueness of the personal stance and within the act of drawing others into agreement with their philosophy they are drawing others into agreement with their uniqueness. This is a highly sophisticated form of the same old dominance game. I have this same impression about you right now. I may or maybe not right about you here, but I do have the impression, for example in your descriptions of your illness you resolved and your levels of awareness in which you are changing from on threshold to another, that these descriptions are not down to the ground, but floating around somewhere.
Jaguar Nagual		#58	[-]
Posts: 429 (01/20/09 03:25:36) Lujan Matus Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tiffany wrote: Hi Spectral, I agree with Richard's post. In fact, he said it better than I could, but when I heard it I felt it was the same as what I have felt from you as well. I feel you are strong enough to tackle this the way it needs to be. Self-examination is at hand. Remember, its our true power we are seeking to recover, this is the real essence of being here. The fact that you know your truth is not universal is an indication of how to proceed. Truth can only be impersonal even though it is also personal. The personal experience communicates the impersonal which those who see can recognize it as truth. And those who see can also recognize when something is not truth via its non transference as heart knowing. What often occurs in the highly intelligent people is a transference of truth mixed with mechanisms to subdue the attention of others into agreements. The elements of truth make the expression convincing, the other elements capture and control attention in a direction determined by the controller. Maybe more participation in the forum would help bring things to the surface. Your non participation could be your way of staying in hiding and because of this, you should do the opposite. Some tough feedback to consider, but you are a tough warrior
Jaguar Nagual		#59	[-]
Posts: 431 (01/20/09 03:46:12) Lujan Matus Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	In a warrior's life, at a crucial threshold we become unhinged. At this juncture, bidding occurs. It is the insatiable appetite that permeates our planet at the moment. An unquenchable desire to have control of what cannot be controlled. Therefore the disease perpetuates itself; endlessly chasing its own tail. There are many aspects to take into consideration when venturing through this magnificent landscape that is our construct. Nothing is being done to us yet everything is happening. One hand is clapping against an unseen surface that cannot be detected by virtue of the one hand not having the sensitivity to perceive the resistance. There always is an equal and opposing opposite to everything that occurs. One hand clapping is this example. It's just for the other aspect to manifest one has to have the sensitivity to perceive what opposes it, even though it is unified in its opposition. It is a predatorial universe Juan Matus said. He indicated that we must proceed with caution. Yet not be obsessed with the caution required to exist. As a nagual I feel what is occurring inside others. So everything in essence is me, yet it is you too. And until we become the empty hand clapping will we enable ourselves to traverse the subtleties that are the resistances beyond the gross anomalies that all experience on their journey?
glance left		#60	[-]
Posts: 2601 (01/20/09 04:59:41) Administration Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"I loved don Juan saying we should leave people alone in our minds." Yes. Yillecka, I like the distinction you made here. It's helping to resolve a dilemma that's been revolving around the things that have been bouncing about in this thread for awhile now. I appreciate it.

Yuku free message boards

Our truth can easily adapt

Quick Reply