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sidarther |
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Blue Totem, you clearly expressed general disapproval and disagreement. You point out that Don Juan acted 'improperly' with Carlos and others.
Whether or not it was proper, I think it is fairly clear that there were times Don Juan, and subsequently Carlos, fucked with people. But what I would like to
know is if you are "against using the word war when it comes to spirituality and self growth" what word or words do you feel better express
this? I ask this because I recently returned from an encounter with the Nagual, and war is precisely the word I would use.
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RelaxFierce |
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Your immune system is also one of the deadliest and war-like cultures on the planet.
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Tiffany |
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I had a relative call me yesterday, because she wanted to fuck with me. I told her I would not be a part of it. So, she sent me an email because she still
wanted to fuck with me. Again, I told her no.
Maybe next she'll trying being nice so as to get reentry into my space. And if I let her in, she'll proceed to fuck with me. Except, I'm not going to let her in. And its not because I don't like her, I do like her. Its because I won't let myself be fucked with. I am responsible. |
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bit shiny |
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Hi Tiffany, I like this perspective a lot, I cant believe how long it has taken me to realise . Now I just have to try and remember and reinforce it through
action ,when the buttons start being pushed staying alert enough to maintain "not letting myself be fucked with".
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Tiffany |
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Hey Bit,
We all have to learn this. Because we were all fucked with and we also learned to do it back. So, we became immersed within it. The beautiful part, which you will find out and have probably have already experienced, is that drawing your own perimeter of power and letting others know "you cannot cross here" brings extreme joy to our inner child. And this joy that resonates within as we assume responsibility will buffer the 'pressure' others will try to apply as a result of our stance. Good luck with it. Lujan's advice to me, when in a struggle for my power with another or others, was to use more assertiveness, rather than less, and then I can correct later if need be. Of course, by assertiveness I don't mean anger, just asserting your truth to another when they are fucking with you. If you do become angry, you can always consider withdrawing and observing. Anger should never be used as a means of communication. If we do it, we can simply remove ourselves and recap what occurred. Otherwise, assertiveness can certainly make another angry even if your perspective is not of anger. So in this case, its important to not become involved in the other's emotions. But you can still do this and remain assertive. |
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Tiffany |
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And also, the ways people fuck with us are numerous and complex. It takes practice to identify them, and one gets better as they go forward with it. Also, we
have to see when we are the ones doing it, which is even harder to do, but is so very necessary if one is to truly be free of it.
In the case of my relative mentioned, the way she was fucking with me was that she called me to complain about her living situation--how bad it was. She gave me numerous stories of her woeful existence and those that were causing her grief. When I asked her what she was going to do to resolve it, she said she couldn't do anything, she was stuck in her situation. And then she proceeded to continue complaining. When the conversation had begun, she was being so very nice to me, asking me how I was and what I was doing and when I told her, she had friendly responses, but once the conversation got to her, her true motives were revealed. She wanted me as her confidante, she wanted to call me on a regular basis to complain about her situation because she was not strong enough to get out of it and so as a distraction, she wanted to immerse herself and me in her idea of being the victim and take pleasure (be it a dull one) in the feelings of sympathy she could extract from me. She could do this for years perhaps. All the while, she would be my 'friend' as long as I went along with her game by agreeing with her. |
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Jaguar Nagual |
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Blue when I reached to turn the handle of the door it bids me entry to the next threshold. There are opposing forces that present themselves in the action of doing this. Even though this isn't seen as conflict, one is definitely aware that if they didn't have the knowledge and stability within the hand gesture the door wouldn't open. So even though we can open a door it is obvious that we are at odds with it in terms of subtle forces that it requires to harmoniously do such a simple thing. So in essence we are at war with the door handle. Yet it is done in such a way that no one sees the act so it is taken for granted. Everything has within it subtleties of refinement. And to balance oneself in terms of all waxing and waning forces is to have one's equilibrium challenged. To be challenged is to be at war. To be at war is to be at peace with what presents itself in every waking moment. We are not a crew here. Everybody has their own voice. There are many contradictions to come to terms with when the processes and subtleties of life appear. And that's how we gain wisdom. |
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Blue totem |
Tiffany | ||
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Well what I'm getting is that this is a Castaneda based web site. Lujan wrote a book called
``When the mind is always moving, you travel from one hell to the next hell.``
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RelaxFierce |
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Well,
It's more of a parallel perception website. imho. |
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Richard |
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I really have to say, that doesn't make the slightest sense, Blue Totem. Stalking was a term used by the shamans of ancient Mexico or I don't know if
it was imported from the Altai Mountains in the 17th Century, none-the-less it is a term used by the lineage of shamans Juan Matus was part of, as it was the
lineage of the people who taught Lujan. This is not a Castaneda based website. In fact we have a lot of disagreement with his writings and our approach to
shamanism is fundamentally different to what is described by Castaneda, yet there are hidden cores in his writings, his books aren't what they obviously
are. You come here and throw in a question and give us the answer you already known which is discrediting what we are doing here. If you are really interested
in Nagualism and in own insights rather than repeated knowledge without understanding, this can very well be the place for it, so check a little bit how you
come in here and present yourself, read a bit into topics and you might find an answer which is a little bit less ignorant than your one above.
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Blue totem |
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You have a major attitude problem Richi.
Dont have a cow, ease up buddy. ``When the mind is always moving, you travel from one hell to the next hell.``
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Blue totem |
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The word ''stalking'' was popularised by Carlos Castaneda. The ancient shamans didn't have english.
``When the mind is always moving, you travel from one hell to the next hell.``
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Richard |
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I'm going alright with my attitude. Virtual communication can be of value, but for this one have to make oneself available in terms of not hiding behind
the masks of a virtual realm, but showing responsibility within communication. If there isn't this agreement of transparency in the way of expressing our
truth this form of communication would become worthless, a waste of time. My attitude is that I am here with a purpose and for this purpose I make myself
available for the people I'm communicating with. And if someone doesn't act within these perimeters we have to point that out to keep the communication
here valuable. I don't have to ease up, there is no emotion, but I'm here with purpose and I'm staying for that purpose. You are playing seek and
hide here and I really have to question, why do you seek communication via computer in the first place, if you are not making yourself available for
communication?
Your english argument is pointless, it's like you would translate ancient writings and say it's not ancient, because it's translated. We communicate in english, so of course we use english terms. Lujan's book is in english, of course it uses english terms. |
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Jaguar Nagual |
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Blue - by saying Richard has an attitude problem you are pointing a bone that ultimately causes conflict.
Being within this arena you are at war and at odds with yourself and everybody else when taking this attitude as a reality. By asking him to ease up and calling him buddy, this is reeking literally with conflict within the provocation you put forward. You see the main thrust of your communication is essentially war-like. If you read my post about door handles there is something else hidden in what I've said. One can struggle to open a door and one can struggle to slam a door closed and stay firmly within the comfortable confines of a form of communication that confirms itself to itself. I am sure that you can fit in here without the snide remarks. You see you must understand that it is another person you are talking to. This means challenges but challenges that can be traversed in terms of regaining your ground through conversing in a way that does not deliver the specific blows that you possess. Or should I say that possess you at the moment. I too am a martial artist. I hold to no philosophy. As everybody here, wisdom flows through different pathways. And when arrived at the heart those pathways give rise to alternate perspectives. Warmest regards, Lujan |
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RelaxFierce |
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We gonna die!
I won't feed drama(s), bluetotem, yours or anyone elses. your supposed hangup on a particular word is just a misdirection to attempt to absorb attention in a drama, a drama which holds back your own insight and is an attempt to pull us into compromise by sympathizing with you. Your dislike of war is an excuse that you supply to yourself within self reflection so that you don't have to examine your own internal conflicts(wars), and are probably held in place by an emotional resonance (Whether you are conscious of this or not -- You are now!) that is from an experience within your life where you either got hurt or hurt someone else knowing that you shouldn't have. And this weakness and complacency is probably reflected back to you in your environment once in a while. http://www.parallelpercep...les/fear-not-be-free.html I disliked war too at one point, until I realized that I was just being a coward. Conflict can be healthy.
Last Edited By: Tiffany
12/31/08 18:38:08.
Edited 1 times.
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bit shiny |
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"We gonna die!" Thanks I needed that reminder, Im going outside to play. :)
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Tiffany |
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Blue totem wrote:Blue Totem, You got the answer you wanted to hear because you told it to yourself. I started reading Castaneda when I was 14. I followed him for about 10 years strictly. I tried to apply everything in his books. In my twenties I moved away from his books, and by thirty I had gotten rid of all his books I had owned. I kept only 1 "Active Side of Infinity" because the chapter Mud Shadows intrigued me and I thought I'd keep the book around in case I wanted to reread the chapter. Still, I rarely picked the book up--maybe twice in 5 years. Otherwise, I had put following Castaneda to rest. I found Lujan's website at age 34 and what I liked about it is that it did not remind me at all of Castaneda's work. I wouldn't have stayed at this website if it was just parroting Castaneda because I was finished with Castaneda as far as I was concerned. If you take the time to read elsewhere in the forum--try the Castaneda forum, you'll find posts by me that challenge Castaneda's work. Yet, you think I'm an adamant follower of Castaneda which is quite funny considering that here at this forum, I have often been the voice of disagreement about Castaneda. I still do not trust Castaneda. However, I have learned to see beyond the man. And this really applies to all people, beyond all people is the abstract working through them. So, in essence, everything is a teacher if we learn from whomever presents themselves, no matter who that is. It can be anyone, can't it? What you have done is reveal your shallow perception and impulsive desire to communicate that which you know nothing about. So, I have learned something from you. Because we are all essentially the same. What is reflected to us from another is personal, yet the impersonal reveals lessons or insights to those who will listen and see and the lessons pertain to the perspective of the observer--if they are empty enough to receive, so the lessons are vast and as diverse as people are. And the lessons are always occurring. There is a contradiction in what I have just said: "Because we are all essentially the same." "so the lessons are vast and as diverse as people are." A warrior lives within contradictions. Knowledge IS war. In order to know something, you must release what you previously knew. In order to release what you previously knew, you must surrender to uncertainty. In order to surrender to uncertainty, you must realize you don't know anything. This takes courage beyond belief. |
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Tiffany |
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"Knowledge IS war.
In order to know something, you must release what you previously knew. In order to release what you previously knew, you must surrender to uncertainty. In order to surrender to uncertainty, you must realize you don't know anything. This takes courage beyond belief." I'm now reminded of the movie The Prestige. If you haven't seen it, don't read any further if you plan to see it because what I say next will spoil the plot. In this movie, two magicians are rivals. They are always trying to outdo the other one with the better magic act. One of them, The Great Danton, goes to see Tesla, an inventor, and Tesla builds this magician a machine that can clone him. So, The Great Danton uses the machine to do a disappearing/reappearing trick, in which he reappears hundereds of feet away from where he disappeared in a matter of seconds, because, in fact, he has cloned himself into two people. One who dissappears, and the other who reappears. The problem with the trick is that, if both of "him" get to live, each night he's be duplicating himself, and after 100 performances, there'd be 200 of him. So, to remedy this, he puts a tank of water directly under the stage where the cloning machine is (one of the pods). At the moment he is cloned, a trap door opens under the machine on stage, and one of him falls into this tank through the trap door and the tank then slams shut and locks. Then, The Great Danton (one of him) drowns in that tank of water and is killed, while the other Great Danton gets "cloned" at the other pod which is located at the top of the theater behind the audience. He emerges from behind the scenes and takes his triumphant bows to the roar of applause. He later confesses his greatest fear to the rival magician: "Do you have any idea what it takes? When I go into the machine, I have no idea if I'm going to be the man who gets the applause, or if I will end up being the man in the box (tank of water)." That's paraphrased from what he actually says. In this same way, a shaman's death is like this. Everything has to be surrendered in order for the magic to occur. And in every moment it is done. And there are no guarantees of anything. This takes courage. To die this way in every moment. |
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Blue totem |
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I'm probably not in the right forum.
I love mystisism, but I'm not a Castaneda follower. I'm not going to be popular because of this. Anyway, happy new year sorcerers. ``When the mind is always moving, you travel from one hell to the next hell.``
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Tiffany |
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Being popular is overrated anyway
Regardless of what you think, you're welcome here. Maybe your biggest fear right now is finding out that we are not Castaneda followers as you thought. Does it scare you to think you are wrong about us? Because if you are wrong, it means you really don't know what this world is about. All you are doing then is "thinking" you know. And I'm saying, we are all in this boat. We all have to experience this fear that our thoughts fail us.
Last Edited By: Tiffany
12/31/08 20:56:57.
Edited 2 times.
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